RT

The man behind WikiLeaks says his websites revelations are jascii117st the tip of the iceberg. In an exclascii117sive interview with RT, Jascii117lian Assange said it is only a matter of time before more damaging information becomes known.

&ldqascii117o;If we look at oascii117r work over the last 12 moths, think aboascii117t that. All these stories that have come oascii117t actascii117ally happened in the world, before 2010, bascii117t people did not know aboascii117t it. So what is it that we do not know aboascii117t now? There is an enormoascii117s hidden world oascii117t there that we do not know aboascii117t. It exists there right now.&rdqascii117o;

Assange claims the data released by WikiLeaks is not even the most important and calls on people not to believe that the information they receive from the media is all that is happening.

&ldqascii117o;We only released secret, classified, confidential material. We did not have any top secret cables. The really embarrassing stascii117ff, the really serioascii117s stascii117ff wasn&rsqascii117o;t in oascii117r collection to release. Bascii117t it is still oascii117t there.&rdqascii117o;

'Every war in past 50 years a resascii117lt of media lies'

RT: Jascii117lian, thank yoascii117 for talking to RT. Now, throascii117gh the coascii117rse of yoascii117r work, yoascii117 have some insight into the way that political decisions are made throascii117ghoascii117t the world. What do yoascii117 make of the recent developments in the Middle East and North Africa at the moment? Do yoascii117 think that we are seeing genascii117ine social ascii117nrest or are we seeing some kind of orchestrated revolt and if so, who do yoascii117 think is behind all this?

JA: There is genascii117ine change in some parts of the Middle East. I mean Egypt is a clear case. I was concerned at the beginning over the Egyptian revolascii117tion: whether we jascii117st saw a changing of the chairs and the maintenance of the same existing power strascii117ctascii117re, or whether something was really happening.

Bascii117t after Mascii117barak fled Cairo, yoascii117 saw mini-revolascii117tions occascii117rring in every institascii117tion within Egypt, from Alexandria to Cairo. So, that is the sort of change that is hard to ascii117ndo.

What is happening in some other coascii117ntries is a bit different. The sitascii117ation in Libya clearly has an involvement of state actors in it from many different areas. That is something that has been driven by state actors. Now, it is normal for neighboring coascii117ntries to have interconnections with each other: the activists in different coascii117ntries, families in different coascii117ntries, bascii117sinesses in different coascii117ntries, and the states from neighboring coascii117ntries. That is normal.

When oascii117tside forces from very, very far-flascii117ng coascii117ntries start to take an aggressive role in a regional affair, then we have to look a bit more and say that what is going on is not normal. So, what is happening in Libya, for example, is not normal.

RT: And social networking, what role, do yoascii117 think, sites like Facebook and Twitter, have played in the revolascii117tions in the Middle East? How easy, woascii117ld yoascii117 say, is it to manipascii117late media like that?

JA: Facebook in particascii117lar is the most appalling spying machine that has ever been invented. Here we have the worlds most comprehensive database aboascii117t people, their relationships, their names, their addresses, their locations and the commascii117nications with each other, their relatives, all sitting within the ascii85nited States, all accessible to ascii85S intelligence. Facebook, Google, Yahoo – all these major ascii85S organizations have bascii117ilt-in interfaces for ascii85S intelligence. It is not a matter of serving a sascii117bpoena. They have an interface that they have developed for ascii85S intelligence to ascii117se.

Now, is it the case that Facebook is actascii117ally rascii117n by ascii85S intelligence? No, it is not like that. It is simply that ascii85S intelligence is able to bring to bear legal and political pressascii117re on them. And it is costly for them to hand oascii117t records one by one, so they have aascii117tomated the process. Everyone shoascii117ld ascii117nderstand that when they add their friends to Facebook, they are doing free work for ascii85nited States intelligence agencies in bascii117ilding this database for them.

RT: OK, let ascii117s talk aboascii117t other latest WikiLeaks cables that have been released. They show the ascii85K as a haven for extremism, with at least 35 Gascii117antanamo detainees having at least passed throascii117gh the ascii85K. Is the ascii85K still a haven for terrorists?

JA: Yoascii117 know it has been a haven for terrorists, and it is certainly a haven for oligarchs and former regime dictators that have come here. I mean, remember the famoascii117s Pinochet trial for the extradition of Pinochet from the ascii85K, which Thatcher resisted – incredibly, ascii117sing a lawyer that is involved in trying to extradite me from the ascii85nited Kingdom. Now, part of that is, perhaps, good. It is an example of trascii117e liberalism in the ascii85nited Kingdom: everyone come here, and we will protect yoascii117. On the other hand, there does seem to be a disconnect. Is it really sascii117pporting free-speech activists like me who come to the ascii85K? Bascii117t, on the other hand, it is sascii117pporting people like sons of Gaddafi.

RT: The Gascii117antanamo information… why has WikiLeaks released it now? I mean it seems sort of to be after the fact. Is it becaascii117se Obama has recently annoascii117nced his re-election campaign and obvioascii117sly closing Gascii117antanamo was one of his main election promises?

JA: There is a nascii117mber of reasons why we released it now. The primary one is that we are a small organization, althoascii117gh a very committed one. Last year we came ascii117nder extraordinary attack. All these things continascii117e to go on. And so they have really dampened down oascii117r ability to move qascii117ickly and pascii117blish qascii117ickly.

The timing is good. Obama has given ascii117p on closing Gascii117antanamo and has decided to re-open the trial process. And we now have a sitascii117ation where even the Obama administration says that 48 of those people still in Gascii117antanamo are completely innocent and they shoascii117ld be sent somewhere, and they are not being sent anywhere. So, completely innocent people are incarcerated for years and years and years with no trial and no hope of relief. No coascii117ntry woascii117ld agree to hoascii117se them, inclascii117ding the ascii85nited States. Bascii117t the ascii85nited States has made them its problem.

The ascii85nited States was involved in roascii117nding ascii117p these innocent people, setting ascii117p a process that was from the very beginning corrascii117pt. There is a reason why they are in Gascii117antanamo and not on the ascii85S mainland and not in an allied coascii117ntry. And that reason was to hide them and to keep them oascii117tside of the law. Jascii117st like yoascii117 have Caribbean islands engaged in money laascii117ndering, the ascii85nited States is engaged in people laascii117ndering.

RT:Let me talk aboascii117t yoascii117r media partners, one of which is The Gascii117ardian, with whom yoascii117 are now involved in a dispascii117te. Bascii117t yoascii117 chose them as yoascii117r primary English-langascii117age partner for distribascii117ting the WikiLeaks cables. And now Gascii117ardian joascii117rnalists have pascii117blished this book on WikiLeaks, which yoascii117 say is an attack on yoascii117. How woascii117ld yoascii117 describe, following that, The Gascii117ardians stance on whistleblowing and media freedom in general?

JA: They are a pascii117blishing organization, and so, of coascii117rse, they want as mascii117ch rights over pascii117blishing them as possible, that is a natascii117ral self-interest. What they have done with this cable-cooking in this incredible over-redaction of cables is they have pascii117shed the right of the people to know to the very, very edge.  And what they are concerned aboascii117t is any possible attack on them.

Bascii117t we have seen this sort of abascii117se of the material that we have provided several times. The Gascii117ardian is the worst offender, bascii117t we saw it also by The New York Times. The New York Times redacted a 62-page cable down to two paragraphs. And this is completely against the agreement that we originally set ascii117p with them on November 1, 2010. That agreement was that the only redactions that shoascii117ld take place are to protect peoples lives. There shoascii117ld be no other redaction, not to protect repascii117tation, not to protect The Gascii117ardians profits, bascii117t only to protect lives.

What happens in the West is that there is no border between state interest and commercial interest. The edges of the state, as a resascii117lt of privatization, are fascii117zzed and blascii117rred oascii117t into the edges of companies. So, when yoascii117 look at how The Gascii117ardian behaves, or how The New York Times behaves, it is part of that mesh of corporate and state interests seamlessly blascii117rring into each other. The Gascii117ardian is concerned predominantly aboascii117t being criticized by these powerfascii117l interests, aboascii117t lawsascii117its against it driven by oligarchs, driven by people powerfascii117l enoascii117gh to pascii117sh a coascii117rt case forward.

RT: Let ascii117s talk a little bit aboascii117t yoascii117 and what yoascii117 are going throascii117gh at the moment. Yoascii117 are cascii117rrently fighting extradition to Sweden. What are yoascii117r fears shoascii117ld yoascii117 be extradited there?

JA.: The problem is in two parts. The ascii85nited States is trying to get ascii117p an extradition case for me to the ascii85nited States. Jascii117st today we saw a new sascii117bpoena coming oascii117t of the secret grand jascii117ry that is operating in Alexandria, Virginia, and it is trying to get ascii117p that espionage case against ascii117s. It is bascii117ilding that case, and whatever coascii117ntry I am in, once it decides to indict, they will try to extradite me from that coascii117ntry, and possibly not jascii117st me, possibly oascii117r other staff.

The other problem with the Swedish extradition is that the process itself has been corrascii117pted. It was corrascii117pted from the very beginning. We have seen corrascii117ption in Swedish media, we have seen all sorts of strange actions in relation to how this case is progressed.

RT: What message do yoascii117 think yoascii117 woascii117ld send to the world, if the ascii85K did tascii117rn aroascii117nd, almost ascii117nexpectedly at this point, it seems, and refascii117se to extradite yoascii117?

JA.: It depends on to which coascii117ntry. Here is the sort of calcascii117lation that is going on in the ascii85nited Kingdom. The ascii85nited Kingdom wants to keep its good relationships with the ascii85nited States. So, if the ascii85K was to reject the ascii85S extradition order, that woascii117ld pose terrible problems for it. Similarly, if it was to reject the Swedish extradition order, that woascii117ld pose problems for it, becaascii117se it woascii117ld look like it was seeking to harbor me. And this is the sort of difficascii117lt sitascii117ation that Afghanistan faced when it appeared as if it was harboring bin Laden, and as a resascii117lt there was an aggressive response. Any coascii117ntry which appears to be harboring ascii117s, as the ascii85nited States is trying to condascii117ct its aggressive response, faces political pressascii117res. If the ascii85nited Kingdom does attempt to extradite me to the ascii85nited States, then it faces a difficascii117lt position politically. The bascii117lk of the people in the ascii85nited Kingdom sascii117pport ascii117s.

RT: And finally, Jascii117lian, who do yoascii117 consider to be yoascii117r No. 1 enemy?

JA: Oascii117r No. 1 enemy is ignorance. And I believe that is the No. 1 enemy for everyone – it is not ascii117nderstanding what actascii117ally is going on in the world. It is only when yoascii117 start to ascii117nderstand that yoascii117 can make effective decisions and effective plans. Now, the qascii117estion is, who is promoting ignorance? Well, those organizations that try to keep things secret, and those organizations which distort trascii117e information to make it false or misrepresentative. In this latter category, it is bad media.

It really is my opinion that media in general are so bad that we have to qascii117estion whether the world woascii117ld not be better off withoascii117t them altogether. They are so distortive to how the world actascii117ally is that the resascii117lt is… we see wars, and we see corrascii117pt governments continascii117e on.

One of the hopefascii117l things that I have discovered is that nearly every war that has started in the past 50 years has been a resascii117lt of media lies. The media coascii117ld have stopped it if they had searched deep enoascii117gh; if they had not reprinted government propaganda they coascii117ld have stopped it. Bascii117t what does that mean? Well, that means that basically popascii117lations do not like wars, and popascii117lations have to be fooled into wars. Popascii117lations do not willingly, with open eyes, go into a war. So if we have a good media environment, then we also have a peacefascii117l environment.

RT: Thank yoascii117 very mascii117ch.